Glad to have Connor on again. We're gonna dive right into the whole uh Ice. We'll just call it a protest, the ICE protests. A group of protesters went into a church in Minneapolis over the weekend, which now it appears that what they believed to be the issue, which was there was a pastor or somebody associated with the church that was an ICE agent or affiliated with ICE, which my understanding, everything I've seen since then is that that is not the case. So Connor, glad to have you on here. And like I said, we'll dive into that. Well. I'd I also like to talk about some of the things that we're concerning to use for as some of the tactics that ICE was using, and we just you did some comparisons earlier when we talked, but let's go straight into the situation. I think it's twofold. One is, uh, you have. A group of people to go and interrupt a service. I think I think the optics of that are horrible. It and and just the I think it's kind of interesting that you know your your your first Amendment right, You've got two competing interests that are both saying like we have a right to do this, but like you have one that is like, in my opinion, I don't think anybody in that church was out there. I don't know how you look at a church, uh something, you know, a service in a church service being anything other than peaceful, and so to interrupt that and and honestly like exposed innocent people, uh to to that level. Of anger, whatever you want to call it. I just think it was unnecessary. I think it's it was. To me, it was worse because you had a well known journalist that went in there, and you know, and I said, one of the interviews I saw Don Lemon do was like he the past he was like right on top of the pastor, and the pastor was like, you know, kind of like you're in my space and he's he's into that, like, don't push me. I'm like, dude, you're inside his church with a bunch of people that are desturbing his service. The fact that you walked out. Of there, I think is a is a positive thing. And so uh, I guess my first question is did they pick a church because they knew that people were peaceful? I doubt they would go to an ICE briefing and at tip something like that. No. So I think when I think this touch is on a on a point that we were kind of talking about before we started, and and it's where, even as a left of center individual, I start to look at my own folks and go, all right, let's if we're if we're claiming the high road, we have to stay on the high road, which is, you know, if I'm going to sit there and and criticize ICE for showing up at you know, immigration hearings, at courts or going into schools or hospitals or these places that have been reported that they've showed up on that I disagree with. I think they should be through one degree or another kind of a like you know, we don't go mess mess around at a school. We figure out a different approach. I think that same standard applies to my own side of things, which is, no, you don't go and interrupt you know, church service because you heard that maybe the pastor had some affiliation or support or interaction with ICE agents, especially when you know details are probably secondhand or not entirely clear. So I think if the expectation is that you know, protesters are expected are First Amendment, you know, we're allowed, there are allowed protests, they're allowed to voice their opinion. There are things that while we might disagree with the verbiage or the means, it's still one where there are just certain things where you're like, all right, this could legally be okay, this could be protected by First Amendment, but morally or just was it huge? Not humanity? But like just common sense. It's like, don't touch a church, don't touch a school, don't touch a hospital. Like there's an ice agent that got hurt and they're in a hospital, and you don't go and harass him in his hotel, in his hospital room. Like there's stuff that to me is just respectfully, you know, out of bounds. You know, if you want to, you know, Don Lemon wanted to go in after the church service. As a former reporter, he should know better and go in after the service and say, you know, father, can I have a conversation with you? This is what we've heard. Do you have anything to say? Can we can we talk? Can we have the conversation that you and I are trying to have about stuff like this that I'm okay with. That's a respectful approach, that's you know, showing an intended peaceful peaceful conversation. But I think that's the key is I think it's a conversation. It's not it's not about like creating controversy or anything else. It's a conversation where somebody is like a back and forth with the hope that like we're going to accomplish something in the in the process of it. And I think that's where I struggle, Like you mentioned a hospital for an ice agent, where do we draw the line because everybody wants to piss and moan about the agents wearing masks, But the reason they wear their mask is because there are people on the left. They put their information out there and they show up at these these public servants homes where their wife and children or significant other are or parents or anything else who have nothing to do with their occupation. And I just think in the past that they would people would never do that they're respected. I think that's a problem kind of across the board because I've I've heard of and I couldn't tell you any right off the top of my head, but I've come across over over the months. You know, people from the right putting people they saw at protests or whatever, say like docsing it's bad across the board. It happens, it should not. But I don't think. I don't think that that is a a right side thing. I think because I agree with you when when Charlie Kirk was killed, one of the things I had a problem with on our side is they called out some reporter that I mean, and what they said was a vile thing to say, but like they tried to cancel them, you know, like, oh, we should get rid of them, and I and I don't. I think you should say like that is like unnecessary, but like just trying to destroy somebody because they have an opinion different than yours, I don't like. I don't think that. I don't think that's the way to go. I think I think there should be some measure of like I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you when I hear just from a law enforcement standpoint, something that's happened in Virginia where they're introducing the house build where they're going to take away qualified immunity for law enforcement, where I will put this out there now, you'll see anywhere from twenty at least twenty percent if not more, officers leave law enforcement if that's gone and I think about the politicians that talk about that, like, hey, this is a good idea, and they're the very ones that have like protective details, they have money to provide their own security because they're going to destroy law enforcement. And I think that is one of the things that people need to take into account is for every decision that is made, there is. Fallout and consequences of it. And I think I think just like what you're saying, and we can get into that in a little bit, but like you can't. I don't think you can go in there and say, hey, this is off limits, like schools are off limits, just like what you said, schools are off limits. You shouldn't go in here, You shouldn't go in here, and then you do the very thing that you talk about. But one of the things that the protester said that I thought was. Was relevant is the argument that you made. And it's this is not a gotcha moment, it's just I think where you have well intentioned, you have your well intentioned with what you're saying. So you said, like, we. Have got to protest where we make it real for people, And that's what they said going into that church, is they said, you know, we want to we want people to see this and realize that like you're not basically you're not safe to worship because you won't stand up for people that are immigrants and everything else. And I think one of the things that you will, you would say about both sides, like any religion that you pick, even I always think about, like everybody wants to say like Islam's a you know, war, and it's not like you have some people that are that are just like just like us, like well intentioned and want to do the right thing. But I think the problem that you run into is when you have the other extreme extremely on both sides and aren't willing to like work together and just say that's wrong, like you can't do that. And I don't think anybody has. It doesn't seem like there is anybody that people are so worried about getting jammed up by other people or like called something nasty, They're like, I'm not going to call that out. I'm comfortable where I'm at. If my set that's something stupid or does something stupid, I'm not going to call them out on it. So yeah, and I think, like you know, with the church thing, like to me, the the hard threshold for me, I I would probably have to say, is the like going in during the service, like if you if you feel it's bad enough and you want to be outside on a public sidewalk being like this, dude, you know this, this pastor is supporting whatever, and we disagree with it. Okay, I might still think that that's you know, a little disrespectful and in the in the midst of a service for all of the just attendees who are just there to worship, but could cross that thresh literal threshold and go in and interrupt in the midst of a service. If that's again my my details are my understanding of the situation is more limited. But if that's what had happened, I think that crosses a line. And I would say the same thing. If you know that church had a high immigrant population and ice busted in in the middle of the service trying to detain me, it's it's wrong on both sides, and you know it's it's it's had it's common decency, I think, and we're what we're. Kind of talking about. It's a great way of saying and it is. It is a common decency on both sides, And I think, you know, when we talk about tactics and stuff like that, I think, I think one of the things that frustrates me. And and we'll just talk about this real quick and then we'll go into the bigger picture. But like from my standpoint, when we talked about the Rico statute that was going to be applied, So let me ask you this, like, let's just run this down real quick, because I think one of the most heinous acts that I've heard of is that dude, that kid that went in and shot up that black church in South Carolina and just did it because it was a black church, you know. And and to me, like. That is that's been years ago. Yeah, in the North Carolina or Georgia church, whatever it was. I think it was South Carolina. But either way, like from my standpoint, like that, like those people did nothing to deserve that, like nothing so other than other than like actually, welcome, welcome, welcoming that kid in. That's the only thing they did. Like and and they you know, they had their hands. I'd like to think that like that somebody has that much hate. To a particular group. And I think that's one of the problems is we use hateful words and hateful descriptions of people to dehumanize them, and and you actually have people that will act on those like that kid did, and I think that's one of the bad things about it us. And and even from the standpoint of I think time will tell that, like the thing that happened when Charlie Kirk was like somebody that like just took. That and said this, this isn't another human. Being that that his life is not valuable, and so I'm going to take it because I don't agree with what he says. And I think that's the slippery slope that we get into when we start, you know, when we when we get in and what like that. It's kind of a weird take to have. But what I think is almost worse is so like take taking the Charlie Kirk thing is like I disagree with his shooting. I don't think he deserved to die. Where I look at that and go, this was an individual who has opinions about what Charlie Kirk said and felt they were strong enough opinions to act on them, and they took him to Charlie's life. I don't think that is okay. I don't think his words justify being killed. But where it's interesting to me in terms of this part of this conversation is like that was a one to one person was upset person, took actions at the person that upset him. Where I see it being so interesting or different, I don't even know what the right word is. Just intriguing, I guess in an intellectual sense. Is these moments where I'm gonna say something and it's gonna get you worked up, and then you are going to go hurt other people, not me or not like getting you know, getting people amped up of you know, racial tensions or whatever, and so like you know, people getting work. You know, this kid getting feeling a certain way because of something he's heard of, you know, minorities being lesser. So then he goes and shoots up an African American church. Like that, to me is such a different mental hurdle or I don't even know what I would call it, but just this sense of like it's not a one to one, it's not I'm mad at you, so I come after you. It's I'm mad and I get you worked up and you go hurt out like it's It just baffles me, it really does. So let's talk about that for a second. Is if we're going to talk about that, so I feel like, for me, I feel like there is there is so many people. There are so many people that are out that are trying to like identify different ways so they can like divide the population up so like one. Against the other. And when we talked about that before, if the one percent can keep the nine nine percent angry with each other, I mean, anybody that's ever had a really bad supervisor that was like stirring up stuff between the underlings so they never had to worry about anything, you know, as far as like somebody challenging their authority, like that was the way they managed. And then the same way, I think. You have these groups that like keep every everything stirred up in different ways, so to go that route for the Rico Statute, we discussed that as far as people that provide resources to target individuals and groups, you know, based on just just based on the fact of like hey we think this is a protest or whatever else. So like for me, my question to you is this is if if the federal government finds out that an entity funded it identified a church, so basically they provided the resources identified a target and sent these people in there to disrupt that service and violate someone's constitutional rights. Should there be some kind of ramification for that. I think short answer yes, I think if you can create and I think we talked about this on the Rico one too, where like my concern with the Rico thing was not necessarily the stated intention, which is, if I can find a one to one where like I paid you to go to a protest to agitate it and get people worked up, Yeah, that's that's in seat. I think it like in a very roundabout way, I would look at it as the same way as like if I was searching to hire a hit man, like I'm still held accountable for those actions. So if it's that path, you know, like I said the Rico thing, it's more the do I trust it to be done the way that it's stated. No, but that's we already had that conversation. But yes, if it's if there was if there's a trackable paper trail, so to speak. That said, I found out that this pastor may have said something to help ice or worked with ICE or whatever, so I got people worked up and sent them specifically there to harass. Yeah, I mean I think that. I'll take it a step further, is if you find out there's a group of people that are just trying to drag other people into the fight. So in other words, we've already divided by color, we've already divided by ethnicity. We've also now we're going to go after the religious component of it. Like let's keep the Christians and the Muslims and all these the Hindu, all these different religions, Jewish, all those different things. So like if you have somebody and you could. Prove that, hey, from a religious standpoint, I want to go after this particular group just because. They fit the mold of they are Christian. It's a church. I don't I don't even know what kind of church it was, So I'm applying the word Christian like I'm not talking Southern Baptist, Presbyterian or anything else. We'll say Protestant. Let's say that. So let's just say they're Protestant, and they they believe a certain thing, and so this entity is only created to stir up one from the other. So let's let's just let's just say at the end of it, we find that there is funding for all this that are coming from let's just let's just talk about Somalia. Let's let's just say the Somalian population up there that was sending money overseas from money that was from taxpayers. So, in other words, you have people from Somalia that are here illegally. They're getting benefits, you know, they are getting resources from the from the federal government to create these type of UH programs to assist other people. What happens if through the course of the investigation that you find out there is a underlying issue of I am of a different religion, of a different color, or or just like or a different ideology, like I just I just don't believe in what you're doing. So I am going to create this friction between these two different groups. So I'm going to say, I'm going to send a black reporter, an African American reporter, into a predominantly white church to say that this is the problem. And so the reporter can. Come back out and actually say and you can read the transcript of what Don Lemon said, which was basically, this is part of their whiteness there there. I'm trying to think of the exact wording. I'll get what I'll let you get your response to and I'll give you the exact wording. What I think. I'm lost slightly like what what's your what's your exact question on this? Like? What is the question? Is? Is that if you find out that a group of people were paid to target a certain another group just to stir up discontent between two different groups, to create an environment like we find ourselves in where everybody's fi with each other. Is the Are the people that created that environment, that funded it, the leaders of that environment? Would they qualify to be investigated and ultimately charge on the RICO statute? I think it would at least open the door for the investigation. I think there would have to be kind of like what we talked about with RICO, Like I would want to make sure that there were clear guidelines as to what were the chargeable offenses. Again, just that like if there's you know, if I happen to be the point of like, oh, you know, if I happen to work for the company that the dude, like if my paycheck from a company does not count as being funded by that company, you know what I mean? So like, yeah, I think generally, loosely speaking, if there is a if there is that direct paper trail that this group or this individual or whatever specifically paid individuals. And I don't mean the sense of like they bought the posters and they covered any permit costs, or they put in like the tertiary funding to you know, organize an event. Like I think that's different. But if it's like I specifically paid you one hundred dollars to go to this event and start a fistfight with someone that escalated things, yeah, I would say that that's probably a minimum open to an investigation. Okay, So it is like you do feel like if they were to find that out, that that would be a legitimate federal investigation because of the constitutional issues involved. Well, I don't I'm not a constitutionalist in the sense of, like, I don't. Know what. Violating the people in that church is right to peacefully assembly, to peaceful assembol and to select their religion and be able to practice their religion with freedom. But I think in this case it had nothing to do with the religious aspect of it. It was the But I disagree. I think I think that this was a very clear targeted thing and they lined everything up. I'll give you this is what he said. This is According to groc Lemon's defense, he denied affiliation with protesters, framed it as reporting on constitutional rights, and later on his podcast criticized church goers entitlement tied to white supremacy. So exactly what you just said, people do that is wrong. We're not one, for one, we're going to paint a group of people with a broad brush because we think one of the people is affiliated with ICE anyway, he says, criticized church goers for entitlement tied to white supremacy, saying discomfort is part of the protest. He argued journalism isn't shielded, but isn't shielded, but insisted his actions were protected and it says this fits the wider ICE rights protests in Minneapolis post the Good shooting and Operation Metro Surge. So like I'm what I am trying, What I am theorizing is that you have a predominantly Muslim population. The people that funded Renee Goods uh are part of the funding mechanism for Renee Goods Association. Correct that that trained her. One of the things that we looked at was there was an affiliation that was that was counter. ICE. So my question is is if. We find and I'm I don't have the answer, but like, my theory would be that you have a predominantly Muslim group some allions, you have a Christian church, and and what better way to stir up discontent between the two groups is to piss off the Christian group. You've already put pissed off the Muslim group because you've already stirred them up. And said this is what you need. You know, you've already starred them up because you're saying, like these people are like the Gestapo. They're doing this, this and this, so let's drag another group into it. I think it's no different than the crap that they do with the Hamas and the Israelis, Like they're always like trying to. Find a way to like find differences instead of like. My hesitation would just be the like if if that direct paper trail where all of that is proven or shown. Sure, but it's the I get. Why would you so just straight strictly from your standpoint, why would you choose to go to a church? So so my understanding and again like i. I'm just asking from your standpoint, without knowing what their motivations are or anything else, why would you choose a church and then make the statements afterwards basically blaming the people that were peacefully gathered to worship. Why are you going to blame them and try to like paint them with this broad brush, and like part of your protest is to shame that people sitting in there, And I feel like that is what that. I think that's what the BLM movement was, and everything else is like shame on the police. Every single police officer is this and that's not correct, and I think there's like fallout from that. Yeah. No, And so I'm going to respectfully say I don't know enough about the church and the situation surrounding it to comment specifically that it was this or that. My understanding at this point or going into this, was that the people went after that or went to that church because the aster had worked with or supported or affiliated or had some positive relationship with ICE agents, and that was their reasoning for going there. I was unaware of any religious motivation and the initial reasoning for going. I haven't seen the Don Lemon. But here's the thing. Here's the thing think about like this, did ICE take Sunday off? And so they're like, hey, let's go to a church and stir it up there like there's not I don't think just like you said, history has the way of repeating itself or it looks familiar my question to you, and and it goes both ways. I think. I think when you look at when you you were talking about Germany and everything else, and like how that all went, like the religious component was definitely there, you know, and although you know. The people that went to the church weren't also Christian, Like do we know for sure that it was a different religious affiliation going into a presumably Christian church. I'm just saying, I'm asking that question. I'm saying, like my theory is, I don't think it is a Muslim against a Christian thing. I think it is agitators trying to like form that connection of conflict and saying like, well, you're either you're either for the some audience who are Muslims or you're for the Christians that are in that church. You can't have it both ways, when in fact, what it is is you have good people on both. Sides that are trying to do the right thing. I don't think it's an accident, and I don't think it's an accident they selected a church. I don't. I don't. I think I just think you're you're honestly, I think you're giving it way too much, like you're making it way more complicated than needs to be. I think it is genuinely as simple as people are already amped up to eleven. They heard this dude or said something something to Ice. We don't really know or they may not even know, and so they just blindly went after it. Like I think you're just over complicating it, and it's something as simple as we heard this dude said something to Io, We're gonna go and interrupt. That's that's just group think on a far, far more simplified level. I mean, I think it's easy to say it's simplified, but I just I just find it very, very curious that. You had a well known journalist that. Just happened to be this with this group of protesters to to to put that information out there. Like I think that has I just I just. This is it doesn't surprise me that there are known entities in terms of social media influencers, former journalists, all this kind of stuff in Minnesota, because Minnesota has been in the news for the last three months. And it's just been escalating. So it makes sense to me that we would start to see more, you know, known individuals being at these things. So like that doesn't really surprise me all that much because so for instance, to kind of to swing this a little bit, because it kind of applies so on the opposite side or the opposite end of the spectrum of this to a degree. So we had a anti ice protest going on somewhere in Minneapolis, I believe, and there was this dude, this known right wing conservative who showed up, Jake Lang. He was a Pardon Jan sixth participant. He's openly The video that shows of him showing up to this anti ice protest starts with him giving a Nazi salute like and I'm talking like hard slap of the chest, hard forty five degree. And so this was a anti ice protest that he, individually, with cameras, with whatever, went to and inserted himself into escalating things, agitating people because he's clearly on the other side of what everyone in this group is. Starts getting like water balloons thrown at Like he stands himself up on like a window ledge up above everyone else starts getting water balloons thrown at him, and then it turns into this whole thing of you know, oh, you know he was attacked and this, that and the other, and yeah he will like you see him get pulled away. At one point, he's got like blood coming down the back of his head because someone like hit him with something or whatever, which again I'm not condoning the violence at all, but I look at that and I go, you put yourself in a situation that you knew would escalate. And what's truly kind of amazing about this moment. There's these videos going around and I don't think this kid, I don't know anything else about this person I'm about to talk about besides this one video, but besides this one interaction I've seen with him. But it's this young black kid and a jacket whatever who's defending Jake Lang. He's he's telling people to back off, he's telling people to leave him Loan. He's got an arm around like he's escorting him out, getting him to safety. I don't know anything about the kid prior to this, but this alone, like is not getting enough attention of how this kid put himself in harm's way to get this person, Jake Lang out, of a situation that he caused for himself. And so when I look so like to kind of tie it in, it's this, like, to what degree, you know, Don Lemon shows up and makes these comments about this church that inflame a situation potentially this kid, you know, known entity on the conservative I've seen accusations of him being a white supremacist. I don't know that. I'm not going to confirm that, but it's popped up when. You say conservative conservative, how that would be? Like my like that would be my question? Is conservative? How? Because that so the quick little blurb that I pulled up on him. Jake Lang is a controversial figure known for his involvement in the January sixth Capitol riot and subsequent political violence. He was pardoned by President Trump and has been involved in organizing anti immigrant marches and protests. Lang's actions have drawn criticism for their divisive nature and have led to protests and counter protests across the country. Is a polarizing figure in the political landscape. But and again, like the reason I would say he might probably be a white supremacist is the video I saw of him going to this protest. Again, it starts with a hard Nazi salute, and but it's the thing where my point being overall is you look at that and people immediately wanted to blame understandably, Like again, I'm not condoning violence in any way, but people look at this group and group think is very much a thing that reacted poorly to him being there. But I look at it and I go, if I walk up to a beehive smack it with a baseball bat, I can't then get pissed if I'm getting stung by the bees, because it's a create a situation I created for myself. So something like you know, tying it to don to the to the church, it's you know, if this group busts into a church in the middle of a service to you know, confront this pastor, I don't feel like they then get to play the victim card of saying, well, why are you guys mad at us, this, this, that, and the other, you know, because they interrupted a moment and created a situation that need not be created at that time. Oh, I don't think they're not apologetic at all. They feel like they have the moral high ground. But which I'm saying is like I'm still on the side of they were in the wrong for busting into a church and interrupting a service. What you're just describing is a I feel like a parallel on the other side of I do not think that that kid just decided to show up and do all like And I think there are entities that are trying. To pull good people on the left. Into this, like, Hey, everybody on the right are a bunch of Nazi fastest or I can't ever say that word. I'm gonna just stop fascist. That's what these people are. And so they like they want to identify and divide, and I think that's the that to me is the problem. The problem is is that like, we're not we're not. He didn't show up, don Lemon, or that kid didn't go up, didn't show up to say I'd like. To hear what you have to say about. They came in there withations and conflict, and to think that like this just happened to have just like everything just happened to come together is just like ridiculous. It's it's almost like to talk about Venezuela. It's almost like saying, like the military just happened to come up with the come up. They just happen to make it work. Now there's a lot of preparation and everything else. And I think we're foolish to think that there aren't groups of people people that like nothing better than the lower ninety nine percent to be like headbutting each other back and forth and finding differences instead of like what you just described with that young kid that comes in there and goes, let me help you. I see another person who doesn't believe anything, probably that I believe, but I'm going to help them. So like from my standpoint, I think that I look at that and go, that's not an accident, like this is you chose that church for a reason. They didn't think. About it like this, Like they didn't go like I think they. I think it's one of those things. Was it was like, here's a reason to do this, let's organize this, and and we think we have a reason to do it. But you still had to think about like, hey, there. Is somebody to me one percent, There is somebody up there that is like that is thinking. So we're think about it like this. And this is the thing I used to. Think about in the military all the time, is like we have our battlespace, but you have somebody up above you, a major captain, everything else above you, and they have the whole battles They do not only have your battlespace, they have the whole battle plan for the entire area. And I think there are people that have a larger plan and part of their plan and look at the results. I mean we talk about it all the time about like look at the end result like there you can't. I think it's easy to well, I think it's this or I think it's that, like let's just have an agreement that like there are there are forces out there that want us to be a back to be divide ourselves and bang heads together. And I don't think it's an accident that you find somebody. You find a group of people that you're like, hey, here's some people that we haven't kicked this, Like you said, we haven't kicked this behind yet. Let's let's kick it and see what happens. Because I think correct. It's like we have this mass conspiracy. I think we have a group of people that are that are quite honestly shitty human beings and they're just trying to stir the pot and they love to watch people fight, like I mean we've we've we've had people in a smaller area, we have had Hell, go back to when you're in when grade school, you had that one kid that loved to like stir the pot, like did you hear what this person said? Did you hit it? So that natural part of our human makeup is like being exploited I think by the Internet and everything else in social media where everybody's like, no, we're we're we're like the civil like this whole bullshit about like we're we're we're on the brink of civil war. Not if not if cooler heads prevail, We're not at We're not at the brink if if you like start like attacking other people, like that's that's where you get get to that point of like okay, let's cross that threshold. But I think the first thing that everybody has to realize is like come to the realization that there's an enormous amount of the division in this country. Yea, and we I do not think the average population have the ability to be to pull all the resources and pull all the social. Media to divide like we are divided. There is something and I'm not saying it's a mass conspiracy because I'm sure like at. The end of it's very transparent. Yeah, and so like from my standpoint, I think it's easy to be like I think it's this person. I think it's that person. And I think what you have to do is like admit there's a problem. And the problem is that we are in a very divisive environment inside this country. We are, and I think instead of talking to each other, we're talking over each other. And I think that's unhealthy. And I think this church, to me, is an example of like let's draw another group into this conflict and see if we can't turn it into like the Muslims against the Christians, because like because I could see very easily if the people inside that church went off on them and or some idiot in the church. I'm not saying there were any of these, but I'm saying, like you have that one stupid person in there. It was like, well you stop. You know, we're funding terrorism and all this other stuff. All Muslims are bad. Like if they just said that, like it'll lit that thing up and people. And so I think. People need to slow down and like stop the high high high volume, high density like banging heads against ease or other and just realize, like we're doing exactly what people like, people that don't want us to get along. We are feeding into that when we start dividing ourselves and trying to like identify as like, well, I'm this or I'm that. Like, no, you're an American like you are and like and and in the same way, don't look at that person as like, but they're an immigrant. Like no, Like, if I see somebody working, they're working. My wife gets so mad at me all the time because, like I get I'm like, man, I appreciate Like right after COVID, she was like, stop telling people that are you know, waiting on our table and everything. You appreciate their service? And I said, I do, Like I do, Like you could stay at home and not work, but you chose to work, and that. I respect that. I respect the fact that you have chosen to work as opposed to sit at home and collect the paycheck. And I can tell you, as someone who was a server during COVID, that those moments meant the world to us and you know, other servers that I knew and worked with that acknowledgment of hey, you know, thanks for being here, because again it's it's that, it's that respect, it's the decency, it's understanding. And I think you know everything you just said for I think is pretty much spot on in that. And I don't think it is some big Illuminati conspiracy blah blah blah blah blah. I think it's straight up people know how to, you know. Taking the Jake Lang thing, it's like it's a kid that grew up in the TikTok social media attention grabbing atmosphere. And even if it wasn't someone else, he knew for certain if he shows up with cameras to that location, he was gonna be able to make tiktoks, he was gonna be able to get clips, he was gonna be Like, there's so much going on right now where I think it gets overly complicated, not saying that the overall topic is not a complicated one, but the the optics are far simpler. And it's exactly what you just said of people aren't having the conversations that you and I are trying to have in these videos. It's it's easier to keep people divided, it's easier to keep people under a thumb if they aren't work because cause again like, think about how many of the topics that you and I have talked about we agree on the prid it's what you said in the very first video, which it's we agree on the problem. It's the pathway to get there that divides us. And so, like I know, from the left perspective, one thing I criticize, you know, liberals and the left for is we can't leave well enough alone when we know we're being baited, sitting there and being like, you know, oh, it's you know, immigration is a problem because it's three hundred million Haitians or whatever, and then we get caught up on having to explain why it isn't three hundred million Haitians, even though we agree that there is a fundamental failure within our immigration system. You know, we get caught up in defending the or trying to get the other side to acknowledge that what they said was a lie or misrepresentative or whatever, and that just fuels the division. And where I would see you know a lot of people going benefiting is if you sit there and say, you know, hey, you know, for instance, let's talk about that, or I'll use this as the examples, like, you know, we're focusing on minutes right now. And I looked it up the other day. Do you know approximately how many estimated undocumented individuals live in Minnesota? It's about one hundred and thirty thousand. Do you know how many undocumented individuals estimating live in Texas? It's like, yeah, was like two point one. And so we look at these moments and you go, it is easy. Minnesota is smaller than a smaller population than so many other places, and yet it's getting all the focus because it's easy to drum up because there is an actual fraud scandal that went on that whether you know it's been being investigated since twenty sixteen or twenty nineteen or twenty twenty two or whatever, like, there is actual things in Florida or in Minnesota that are documented and that we know are wrong. So there's your there's your initial truth to get people started to stir up there. It's a blue state, so it's easy to pull in politics to it, you know, uh, Trump against walls or whoever. Like, it's like it is a perfect powder keg of multiple different divisive topics that you can hyper focus on. Because if you had a conversation of three thousand ice agents went into Texas to combat the illegal immigrants in Texas. You go, yeah, okay, makes sense. Big state, a lot of people, a lot of You're gonna need more immigration officers. It's right on the Mexican Like, it all makes logical sense, and you go, yeah, you need a larger group. But to say, you know, Minnesota, because it's also a game where I look at the like the simplification of Minnesota is not near the southern border. And for better or worse, whenever people say immigrants, they automatically think of Hispanics crossing the southern border. But it's this thing where it triggers so many like pauses, questions. Whatever, of like it triggers emotions. I think it triggers emotions like I like, I feel like in it's really easy to. You're good, I'm listening. I'm just gonna step out of Rosa. So like, from my standpoint, I look at it and I think, there you have all these people in Minnesota, and it's like it's really easy to sit there and have the conversation of like, Okay, these immigrants have done all these horrible things, and it's just it is like a talking point. I do think that like there are some really bad things that happen and they should be investigated. But before they you know, before we start drawing these big I don't know what you would call it, like these big making these big statements about like. All of this is tied to this, or all of this is tied with that. Like I think you you get through the investigation, you figure out from the investigation, Hey, this is what happened based on based on all the pieces of this puzzle, this is what happened. This is how it happened. And so I do think it's irresponsible on the right side to say all Somalians are bad and here's an example of these groups of people did this because like I don't like I feel like the people in leadership are just as just as much to blame then the immigrants that receive some of these benefits. Because like from my standpoint, if you that's one of the things that you find about other countries. They realize that we are a gracious post and in most situations I think about like when we would go to these countries and we would give them, like you'd have all these different organizations that would go out and provide food and everything else. And like, so you have the American populations, like, hey, we're doing a really good job, but then it stops it the warlords or whoever's running that country. And I think, like from my standpoint, I feel like on just dealing with what happened in Minneapolis and with a Somalian population, I think it's easy to blame that population. But again it's the it's a it's a failure of leadership to say, because I do feel like there are probably you talk about somebody coming into this country and they don't speak the language, they don't have any of the different benefits that they have that we have, you know, history or anything else and like contacts, and like I feel like the more you live, the more you realize that, like you have a lot of things that have given you the ability to be in the situation that you're in. Just like from your standpoint, you got a really. Good education because your mom was involved in higher education and wanted you. To be involved with that. But like you have somebody coming from a third world country, they don't have those benefits, So like some of those programs would have been really really beneficial for people that were here, you know, And and but I think instead of looking at that, just like the Afghan shooter in Warston, d C. It's like, aha, we have an immigrant that did a bad thing. Instead of saying like, there are people in this country that contribute that are immigrants and that are not here legally, there are a lot of people that are here that are American citizens that don't benefit a dagon thing. They really don't. They don't make this country better. They just they just milk it. And that's where I think the conversation needs to go in my opinion. Well, I think it's acknowledging too that like to your to your exact point of people who maybe aren't familiar with the culture, don't necessarily speak the language fluently, might not be able to read the language fluently, and so to sit and look. You know, in Minnesota, when you're talking about the Somali population, there are definitely members of that population who willingly participated and we're complicit in these frauds. But when you look at one of the biggest ones, you look at a feeding our future. The woman convicted of it, Amy Bach. She was convicted for thirty three years in prison for her role in a two hundred and fifty million dollars frod scheme. That's just someone who saw an opportunity to exploit a population for personal gain. And while I'm sure there were people you know, underlings involved, that were complicit in that fraud, they're going through it. I think, like I said, I think at thirty three or twenty three or numerous people associated with feeding our future have already been arrested, but then it gets trickled down and associated Oh it's all the Somalis. No, there were plenty of Somali people who were just victims of this, being manipulated and mistreated or or being told, hey, that first thing you did for us was illegal, so now in order for us to not turn you in, you have to keep doing this stuff. I agree one hundred percent. I think a lot of the people. So if you're in need and you don't have any way to feed your children, and somebody comes up and says, can you fill out this application, I'm not going to look at like, Okay, I'm received two thousand dollars of benefits. I'm gonna be like, you're gonna give me five hundred dollars to feed my kids? Yes, I will sign that piece of pay for it and as long as you keep giving me them and and people can look at that and go, I would never do that. But like one, if you're here and you have no way to support your children, if you have no way to get a job or do any of those things, like like, there are very few people that would turn their back on their own children or people that they care about to benefit of government. And it's it's very easy to sit here and say I would never do that if you're never going to be in that situation. You don't until the money's on the table and your kid is starving. It's the whole thing of isn't illegal to steal a loaf of bread to feed your family? Technically yes? But is it justified also yes? Well, and when you look at Samalia, you look at the way that country is and think about the trauma that some of those people have experienced, and again, like I just think, I just think it's it's shortsighted on our on this side of the immigration debate to sit there and go, let's target the some audience because they've done all these horrible things. Do I think there are things that need to be changed up there. But like you said, like don't don't paint it with the brawl bruster of like every single Somonian in Minnesota or in this country does not contribute, because I'm sure, and that's. What I would like to see. What I would like to see is, instead of the leadership in Minnesota, rioting and everything else, tell us a da On success story. Tell tell us about somebody that came into this country with nothing was that received the benefits. Because I think about one of the things I think about is I think one of the one of my favorite people is and I don't know, I've never met him or anything else, but like listening to their story was a senator in South Carolina and I'm gonna say, I'm going to say his last name is Scott, and anyway, he's just talking about being in a single family home, mother that worked all the time and everything else, and he was the first person in his in his family that went to get a higher education. He went all the way through all of that, and like, that's success story, and I think that is what should be celebrated. And instead of like demonizing everybody that is here illegally, let's start telling the stories about people that actually contribute. Let's talk about the people that, yes, I got here illegally, however, because I think our side is really quick to point out as like, here's an example of ten people that got here and did it the. Right way, and this is a success. Like I don't think it's fair to say the system is broken, and it's both sides of it are broken. It is broken from a standpoint of like the system to get in this country legally is broken, but also the system that prevents people coming here illegally is broken. And I think we're overwhelmed. And that's what I would like to see, to tell the story about somebody that came here illegally, and maybe that's what it is. It is like I'm not gonna get on. I'm not gonna get on and say that I did something positive because if I do, they're gonna kick me out of the country because I'm here illegally. So I get that too. Out of curiosity, because you may have accidentally stepped into a point I was gonna address. That's what I'm here for, Buddy, Are you talking about Rick Scott? No, Rick Scott is the Rick Scott is the Senator from Florida, Florida. He said, Oh, he said, South Carolina. Okay, sorry, because so that's so that was kind of the point too, where to tie in a couple of things, you know, your comments about you know, they're people intentionally trying to keep us divided at the lowest level. Absolutely, you know, it's far easier to put attention. On uh, not to interrupt, like my brain like this, Tim Scott. He's a US senator, he actually ran, he was one of the people that ran for president in the last election, and I just think like his story has got he's got a phenomenal story. So sorry, no, no, you're fine that The reason why it pinged in. My head is almost said Rick Scott. But I was like, now it's not him, that's a dude in Florida. So yeah, and so why why he pinged in my heads? You know, we're talking about you know, Minnesota fraud of using the welfare system, medicaid, medicare whatever, and everyone's you know, they're looking at the Somalis who in this case who. I'm going to give most of them the benefit of the doubt that they were just truly trying to make lives better for themselves and got taken advantage of. But when I think for me, where we start to where I start to struggle in these conversations and people always call it you know what aboutisms or or you know whatever whatever. To me, I look at it as you have to be able to acknowledge it across the board. And the reason why I say that is so there's the senator from Florida, Rick Scott, who in the nineteen nineties was found he ended up resigning as the CEO of a healthcare company because they did one point seven billion or they had recorded one point seven billion dollars in fines and penalties manipulating the healthcare system, essentially fraud. And so when I look at it, and when you look at like the day and age that we live in, where you see you know, uh, George Santos, I think it was George Santos. Santos or Soros. Santos, the former politician who was who also resigned, but he was he was convicted of fraud for miss misappropriating I think it was campaign funds. But you know he's been pardoned and this that and the other, and so where where it's it's these moments for me, is to your point exactly, is it's easy if the people in power can keep the us and the knees at each other's throat and not paying attention to that one percent doing all the puppeteering behind us, because if the second you started to take a step back and look and go, you know, pick any subject. I'm a big you know, my mom raised me to be. You know, your words and your actions have to match. And it's you know, okay, we're going after Meduro because he's a drug cartel, ben a factor and this, that and the other. Okay, then why do we pardon the Honduran president who was known for you know, transporting trus Like it's these moments of oh, we're going to go after you know, this type of fraud, but look right over here where we also looked the other way for that type of fraud in a different situation or a different circumstance. And so it's that to your exact point, is it's so easy to find those trigger words to keep the average everyday person, you know, it's on. It's the magician of look over here while I do something with my other hand, and and it makes it that much harder. And we've talked about it a little beforehand, where you know, I look at what's going on in Minnesota and Minneapolis and I'm at the I'm of the belief now where you look at the protesters and I go, hey, we're we're towing aligne to be, to put it as politely as possible, towing a line on legality and on decency ice. You know, I would say they've they've crossed the line with yank and some people out of cars and you know, maybe losing their cool a little bit, to put it politely. But what my point is is that we're at a point where both sides, you know, I said this beforehand, need to take a five minute time out to catch their breath in their corner and actually let that emotion subside a little bit so you can come back to the situation more level headed. And I think that it's it's this two fold of like, you know, protesters know how to get stirred up, and once you're already at an emotionally vulnerable state, it's really easy to push someone over the edge. And how often have you come home from a tough day at work and you found that you know, your dog pooped in the crate or something, and you kind of lose it a little bit. It's not the dog's fault if everything boiling over from that day and until we can recognize that as a people across the board, that hey, maybe we're all you know, sitting at you know, eight, nine, ten, and we're getting pushed to eleven. Like it's it's so easy to keep people distracted and negatively engaged and avoiding the conversation, if you can keep that emotional state high, right, And I think, yeah, I mean that's just that that aspect of like, you know, if we're going to care about something, let's go after the problem of it, and let's not get tied down with the minutia of oh, it's the somalies. It's like, no, it's our entire welfare system needs reform, so let's reform it. But it's easy to look at like, oh, well, you know this this immigrant population or this whatever. And it's just it's hard because it is that moment of seeing probably good people cast in a very bad light because of a situation created by those trying to manipulate them. Yeah, and I think the only thing that I agree with you one hundred percent, The only thing I would take exception to is is the ICE agents. Because again, well the reason I say that is I've been on the receiving end of like bad policy that I had to enforce, and I might not agree with it, but like, I'm still obligated. I swore an oath to do to do a job. And that's what these these ladies and men of the board, patrol, ice and everything else they took. They took an oath to do a job and a job that they are doing. And I think an example of what happens when they don't do that job are the sustained rights and things that happened. So like we don't have I don't feel like in law. Enforcement you have the ability to ratchet back what you are doing because you are still obligated to maintain the peace. And I understand what you're saying as far as like, well they need to stop, but again I think I feel like they are still being told you need to do this. And so like what I would ask on your side is to say the policy makers, the leadership of ICE, if they want to make a decision to put it on hold. That's one thing. Well, we can't demonize the agents because they're the ones that are sent out there to. Do a job. They have sworn an oath to do a job, and they're not doing anything but that job. But I think where the demon is a I agree that demonizing the entire group of individuals does nothing but fuel the division and the animosity between between people. But I think where, speaking from my perspective, a lot of frustration comes in that then gets spilled over onto the boots on the ground is what is seemingly an inability on a larger scale from you know Christin Nohm at the head of the DHS, or you know news outlets, Fox News, whatever, whatever, of to sit and not be able to acknowledge that, hey, maybe some of what's happened could have been handled better. An inability to reflect on situations and go okay, yep, that this could have been differently, or to say that maybe not everyone. It's this blanket of like Ice has done no wrong, will do no wrong, can do no wrong when anyone when what I'm seeing with my own eyes, I look at a situation picked multiple of like I feel like that could have been done better, and it might be my misunderstanding of procedure or policy or whatever. But when it's the public viewpoint of not knowing that and it's just taken what we see. My comparimon my thought on it would be this, and I'll get your input. I think back for kind of a one to one comparison recently with ICE, and we've seen it. They've lowered standards. You no longer need a college degree, they're accepting high school degrees, they're doing signing bonuses, they're making it easier for people to get into ICE. And what that reminds me of was like two thousand and three when George Bush lowered the standards for border patrol, and if you go back and you look at the fallout from that, what was found was that you were having the levels of corruption or abuse actually increased because you were having people who weren't trained to the same level as predecessors being put in a truck to cover a four hundred one hundred and fifty miles stretch of border where they were having cartel members come up and say, hey, here's some money if you look the other way, and they're going okay, because they're all alone out there and they're all there, they're not necessarily trained to the best of the best. And these are well documented instances from back then from the government saying like, yeah, we have an actual uptick in these abuses. And so the historical context to me is when you lower a standard, that also lowers the quality of the result. And so if we've lowered a standard and now you have people that maybe aren't as emotionally stable, or maybe aren't or maybe are a little more quick to aggression or whatever. I don't know what the psyche valves or any of that is for that type of officer, but when you I'd be curious, when all is said and done, if there's ever a reflective investigation or assessment to see if maybe some of the situations we're coming across are coming from some of these individuals hired through a lower standard, similar to what happened in two thousand and two, three four, whenever it was with the Bush Air Border Patrol thoughts. So, my thought is is that you have walked in like just like I walked into yours, you walked into mind. I do not disagree the standard of the standard. Of employee for law enforcement has gone down dramatically, and the reason being is we have increase pay, so there are more people that would normally not be interested in it. That so like when I first saw it, we didn't make We made hardly anything. And the pay has gotten up. But the reason the pay has gotten up is because they can't find people to feel like that do it out of a sense of obligation to the public. That that is. And I'm not saying that's not a blanket statement over everyone. I'm just saying that, like, factually speaking, there are more people that are getting into law enforcement and in my opinion, that are more interested in making money and don't have the same level of a servant a public servant that they should have, and. You're more interested in the power that comes with the badge that they can hold it like we all know that cop from the small town that and I. Think but I think that is but that is that is caused by demonizing law enforcement going through the defunding and again like that one percent sturn everybody against each other, and then the general population is pissed off because the quality of person that you're running to in law enforcement is down. And I don't one of the things I. Will tell you is a lot of the problems in law enforcement isn't the quality of candidates. It is the expectation of leadership of And I'll give you an example, and this is probably the best example to end with. People were furious at that police officer in Lakeland, Florida that stood outside that business or outside of that school where a mass shooting occurred. They were furious, So like, how can you, how could you possibly be a trained police officer and do that? And I'll tell you how. That And I don't know that guy, but what I will tell you is they're They're just like in any other occupation, there are people that will do the job and do the stuff that is necessary to protect the public. But they are also the same people that you probably don't want giving you a speeding ticket or talking to you, because like they have that edge and that that's just that's just a known You work with dogs, just like I work with dogs. The dogs that work the best are the ones that have that little bit of edge. And it's the same thing in law enforcement. And so I think it's kind of strange that the general public is like, I want a police officer that I can talk to that is nice to me, is respectful and everything else. Well, that is the kind of police officer that is going to stand outside the school and let your kids get slaughtered, not because not because of any other reason. Then they are they are They do not have the warrior mindset, and the warrior mindset is not the of like, hey, I'm here to make you feel good about yourself. I'm here to solve your problems. They are people that are going, like, something. Bad has happened. I am the person that is going to go deal with that. If I lose my life in the process, so be it. This is what I signed up for. I didn't sign up for the paycheck or anything else I pay. I can't. I came to be a servant. I think one of the things that I'll end with this and like I really appreciate your time coming on and want all that. But like it was a guy that said that when he retired from law enforcement. You know, the one thing that went into his mind is he was like all the different things when he retired, and he said, you know what, now that I'm retired, I realized. That I will never die in the line of duty. And like I thought, like, what kind of person. And I'm not saying I'm a bad standpoint, but like that is somebody that is committed to their their the general public, they serve they and I go ahead, No. I was gonna say that. The video I sent you last week of the two officers from jan sixth, the one of them, it struck me at the end. And it's that exact sentiment that he goes, you know I have He's like, he's like, I miss it. I it was my desire to be an officer to help the public, and this situation took that from me. And that's the thing that's been hardest for me is I'm not a cop anymore. And like that struck me so much in this like his sense of duty and sense of protection and that he had that. I don't think it's a quality of candidate. I just think that the things that we use to hire people, it's there. It's it's a generational thing, just like you know, you talk about the greatest generation, like I can say for one hundred percent certainty. Like one of the things people forget about. A war is we had the guys that went over and fought all the wars that we've had, Vietnam this way always went for a period of time. Think about the people that went over before US World War One, World. War Two, they were there until they won. You know what I'm saying, Like until hostilities ceased, they were in there. They didn't go, hey, i'll be back in a year if I make it. It was I don't know when I'll be back, and I don't know if I'll make it. And it's all those amazing stories you hear. You know, I think a lot of World War Two of the people who you know, oh, the Marines won't take you if you're not eight team, and so the sixteen fifteen year old lies to get in and this mentality like, yeah, I think you're just think. It's a sense of duty, and I think that is I wish there were I'm not saying there are more people, because I mean, you either have it or you don't have it. But like for my I don't. Have that person you do, but you do have that sense of right and wrong and that like just like the service the way your mom said, if you have something and you have the ability to help, you help. And a lot of people aren't like that. A lot of people are like, let me take as much as I can away from here. So all I will say is like from the. General public standpoint, if you don't agree with the policy, like, you know, go after the policy makers. I understand there's frustration there, and I understand, like I do understand that, I do understand some of the things that they're seeing the ICE agents do. It is difficult to see. But I also tell you from being in violent situation, fights never looked good for anybody, you know. And and that poor lady that lost her life, there's no way to paint that in a good light. It was bad for her and it's going to be bad for that agent, probably for the rest of his career because there's no like, there's no honor in what he for him, there is no honor in that. Like I don't know him as a I don't know him personally, but I know as a police officer, there is no honor in taking someone's life. It really isn't. You have an isolated instance where you have mass shooters and things like that, but even then they still have a mother and a father, they still have family, and so it doesn't stop there. And so like from my standpoint, I would what I would ask people to do is take and keep in mind that these ICE agents are public servants and they are doing what they are by code, required to do and what they are tasked to do. You might disagree with their tactics, but. Having a you know, I think one of the things I think. About too, is like it's really easy to I always think about money more and quarterbacks or people in the stands like, hey, like, after watching the National championship game, that guy should have never done this, or well, I'm in the stands, like I can't say that. I don't I don't even have the talent to be on that. Field to like, far be it from me to to say what they should or shouldn't do. So anyway, good place to end up. I appreciate your time, and as always, it's good to talk to you and good to see your side of it and have a good evening, buddy,
